A True Definition Of MMA: A Very Unpopular Opinion

[Hakaider]

So how did it feel like? Terrible.

It's not a healthy way to live one's life. It got to the point where I was so paranoid that whenever I went to a restaurant I'd sit facing the entrance so I'd know who was coming in. I saw potential threats everywhere, and I carried symptoms of PTSD for a long time afterwards.

It took me a very long time to put my past behind and to learn to live again without fear like a normal human being. I had cut off all ties with everyone I knew, and have difficulty trusting people. Till today I know many, but am close with very few.

If there's any teenager reading this who is in a similar situation as I was, know that the world is vast and there are opportunities everywhere. The cool kids you see in school are anything but.

Don't make the same mistakes I did.

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That was a true account from someone who was recruited by the Triads. Not very fun rough housing.

Doesn't sound like football on a field rough housing right? The Chinese gangs do not mess around and Bruce Lee was involved with triads and his family power... Well... Anyway...

Here is something interesting:

"Detective Inspector Andrew Rennison, head of the Chinese intelligence unit within the Metropolitan Police, described four Triad societies which operate throughout the country, with strongholds in London, Southampton, Manchester, Northampton and Glasgow. He estimated that there were up to 200 core Triads, and predicted that the number of gang members would quickly rise if there is a large influx of people from Hong Kong when China takes over the colony in 1997.

However, a recent trend noted by his team was the recruitment of non- Chinese teenagers into the Triad movement. In a recent case, 20 members of a gang in Croydon, south London, aged from 13 to 15, were recruited by Triads through Chinese youngsters.

The teenagers, both black and white, had been used by the Triad in crimes, mainly centred in London's Chinatown."

-JASON BENNETTO Crime Correspondent

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Bruce Lee's father was a famous actor. I already discussed his mom and grandfather...

Mobsters have traditionally had strong ties with the Hong Kong film industry. Local gangs and triads often demand protection money from film crews to shoot on Hong Kong's streets. Actors who turn down film offers from the triads and directors that have refused to cast triad-supported actors have received death threats and visits from armed gangsters. There have also been reports of harassment and extortion and even rapes and kidnaps. In 1992, two prominent producers were murdered.

One Hong Kong detective told the Los Angeles Times that most gangsters got into the film industry to make a quick buck but some took the film industry seriously. Charles Heung, a former actor and son on the leader of the powerful Sun Yee On triad, became president of one of Hong Kong's largest entertainment companies. Heung has been praised in the filmmaking industry as being "one of the good gangsters." The Director Wong Kar-wai even went as far as saying, "It's better to deal with a godfather than an accountant."

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This is pretty much all I want to say about Bruce and Triads. His family had power and he was cocky jerk. You do understand that he fled HK because of his triad dealings. If it was just a simple a fight with some kids or he was rough housing so much, I don't believe he would be sent away so urgently. He pulled a knife one of his classmates when he was a kid. It tells you something. Apparently, he ****ed off the son of a head of a powerful triad member around 18. There is plenty of stuff out there to research, if you want.

Why would a gang rub off someone? This is territory I cannot get into for many reasons, including my own safety. I don't want to think about or speak about the triads. Not my business. I keep to myself. But, logic and a little digging will help you answer this question. The triads are a business, stars can be created anytime. Territory is important and that's about all I can ever say... Sorry.

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It's true that there are bad apples out there in CMA. That is not my concern. The main thing is to understand that CMA at it's core has principles/philosophies that are benevolent, such as taoism and buddhism. If people don't want to follow that path, that's a fate they have chosen and life will deal with them naturally. We get what we choose to be. However, for most high level masters who truly understand the core ideology of CMA, finding an evil and rotten soul to give deep skills to is not ideal. I don't know why it is strange to suggest that CMA has ethical ties and most high level people would not like to give skills to potential criminals. I would be very weary of someone who claims to have deep science in CMA and lives a selfish and evil lifestyle. As for the people on this board, I don't really know people on here. I hope they are pursuing an ethical existence, so they use their skills for the right purposes and are not just trying to be badass. I didn't know that lots of people on this forum have a gangster mind attitude, as you said. I am just looking a place to discuss some stuff for discussion.

I do appreciate your involvement and humor. Interesting opinions.

About Bruce's book with James Yimm Lee. I believe the first book was called: Chinese Gung Fu: The Philosophical Art of Self-Defense in 1963. It's a collection of loosely tied photos with no depth. He also published documents that slighted other Kung Fu styles he deemed as not useful at the same time in magazines. I think James Yimm Lee's Wing Chun book came a bit later. James Yimm Lee had a well known Iron fist, but never mastered wing chun in any form, shape or way. He was also a 3rd rank instructor and CO-FOUNDER of the Jun Fan Gung Fu Institute in Oakland. Of course, Bruce would take care of those who would add credibility to his "Jun Fan Gung Fu style." Who gave Bruce Lee permission to certify other masters under his "Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jun Fan Wing Chun" (Bruce Lee Gung Fu?Wing Chun) school? No one. He certified himself as a master after obtaining 5 years of Wing Chun, under Yip Man and decided... I have my own Gung Fu now. Why? Because, he felt like it and as a drama major... he realized Kung Fu was a major cash opportunity. Did any of those books give respect to the great leaders and lineage of Wing Chun history or even thanks to those who came before? Not really...

When I analyze the way you speak of Bruce, I can tell you are a huge fan of his. He was a film star and well recognized. That doesn't make him a decent person.

[Hakaider]

In Reply to Jimbo:

I am not under-estimating your combative skill. However, if you read my original message, it's clear: "If you think training immoral or evil people to have high level skills is apart of CMA culture or an accepted part of CMA as a whole, then you don't really understand the meaning of kung fu or wushu and I suggest you travel more and get to know it deeper."

This doesn't imply you can't fight or that you have low skills. I do respect your diligence and hard work for the past 30 years. I am making a true statement. Clearly, you don't think training immoral or evil people to have high level skills is apart of CMA CULTURE or an accepted part of CMA AS A WHOLE, right? So, then my point is clear. Unless, you actually do think so. Then, I politely disagree and I wish you the best in your CMA career.

The CMA schools that have criminal connections are no different than charities with money laundering criminal ties. They don't represent their intended purpose or even culture. I repeat: Just because some people use CMA for bad purposes doesn't mean it was created for such purposes or has such evil as it's core philosophy.

Wealth doesn't measure intelligence. Studiousness does and science IS IMPORTANT. There are many different types of sciences. Someone can be adept in one and not skilled in another. Poor individuals can be quite smart in many ways. I don't understand why this was brought up? I also think that morality is also a form of knowledge and giving science to people who lack it, means it will be used for bad purpose. Evil is often self destructive. Why would a culture be created to destroy itself?

About Bruce's words, I do agree with you. Hence, why I wrote my original post. MMA claims that Bruce's words as an undeveloped youth is the foundation for saying that it has developed the ultimate combatants. This has led people (especially a lot of MMA fanatics) to dismiss TMA. You can see some of the attacks on Kung Fu from the MMA community right on this very forum. So, your words is exactly why I wrote what I wrote.

I meant no disrespect.

Alright gentleman, I will leave this discussion to others who want to speak their mind. It has been great talking, but I feel there is not really much more for me to say.

[boxerbilly]

I understand children can be soldiers. It is worldwide history. So to nit understand gangs do the same would escape me as to others reasoning skills. But just because a young Lee was surrounded by a corrupt city and who's father may have family history and connection and whom Lee may have also know at that young age does not mean he was triad. You are convicting him guilty by association when he may in fact have had no choice in the matter. Likely most of HK business was infiltrated at some level by criminal elements. Does that make the little old lady that buys bread at the corner shop who has an owner that pays a local collections officer who pays the local whoever the monies ? Snowden informed us all that 6 hops out we are all connected. But it is really 6 degree of Kevin Bacon stuff. Already understood. Math science I guess.

What I am asking is where is the actual proof he was a gangster ? Were is the witness. Has he been investigated for accuracy ? Our his statements verifiable ?
Heck, I went to school with local mob guys children. Cant touch those kids period. But did that make them mafia or me mafia ? If I borrowed money from Vinny for lunch Id better have 4 times as much to repay him by 7th period or I was getting my legs broke. No.

I often here my grandfathers warning to not learn any of this stuff. To not fight. I often think he was right.

Again with religious philosophies. Those are the ideals but few live up to them regardless the faith. No, we find a passage or 2 and decide it means it is sometimes okay do break this rule or that rule. But I am more of a realist. I understand people can be good and bad. One guy may be loved and respected for all the good he does. So much so. other over look he is a stone cold killer. Or a thief. Or whatever. Because everything else he does is pious. Heck, he may even preach that stuff.

Anyone with half functioning could figure out Bruce Lee invented nothing. He studied like a mad man and applied different aspects of what he learned to create for himself. People wanted to learn from him so he taught them what he believed in at that time. It changed as he grew older and his understanding grew.
This quote you believe his the basis of his system which he essentially scrapped and ordered Dan Inosanto to close the schools ( quality control may have also been a factor. Lots of thought s I am sure ) because he was done teaching. He told Dan to just teach the few. I believe that is correct. If so, he is following in his kung fu pasts footsteps as far rule is concerned. The why may be different.

The quote was-“Using no way as a way, having no limitation as limitation.” . That could just be another way to say My way is not your way. Don't get hung up on everything I do. You cant do what I can do. I cant do what you can do. It may be similar but never the same. Bruce never did grappling as many assert. I believe he did by the way but not his prime focus for himself. Yet he tasked Hartsell with following that path. It better suits you. He may have also suggested these things I taught you could work to get you into your way so in fact this is also your way but these other things will limit your ability to do so. Scrap them. Another way to look at it was focus on your strengths. Don't ignore or undertrain your weakness but most of the time focus on your strength. But that's my take away it may not be yours.

Anyway, yes. A fan. But more than that. I recognize his genius. As you say just because one master one form of science does not mean he has mastered all of the. So what was Bruce Lee a master of ? Was his mastery extended into other fields of science ? Was he often given to much credit for skill . I pointed out I put him on the low end of acting. Some may consider that field a science as well. With established and varied ways to achieve the same result. Certain aspects remain constant. Those constants may be the real science. Every thing is just catalyst to end result. Might be more than one catalyst to achieve the same or similar result. GOAL. What are you trying to achieve. It will vary from one to the other. Yet they may all use a similar vehicle to arrive to their goal but their map is different.

Had he lived longer we would see yet further results of his life. He had many varied interests and he it appears combined them all to make himself and the world was in awe. And we wanted to use him as imitation and that is limitation. He advised against it.

[boxerbilly]

He was also very studious as pictures of his library have proven. He read them all. Some likely 1000 times.

Jeet Kune Do. I recall reading a time all his students where saying this is JKD that is JKD and Bruce went along with it and in fact likely enjoyed it at first but then he said something along the line of " don't get hung up on the name. its just a name " .

[boxerbilly]

Thanks for your descriptive of your involvement and understanding of the system and policy of what you found yourself in. In post 16. I had not seen this one as I was writing my last post or 2 above.

Glad you are safe and hopefully on a better path for you.

Sorry. It was your 16th post in this forum. It was 40 something.

[Jimbo]

So many people discuss all the major influences BL had on the world, and so many others want to tear him down.

One thing I remember about him was told by Taky Kimura. He was much older than BL, and met him at a time in his life where his self-esteem was at an all-time low. Then BL told him, essentially, "You are as good as anybody else; no better and no worse." That had a great and lifelong impact on Taky's life. It may seem like a small thing, and BL himself might have forgotten all about it, but for Taky it was life-changing, because BL was the right person to tell him that at the right time.

Sometimes it's the supposedly 'little' things one does for others that have such a positive impact for someone. The person who does it may never even realize it. And sometimes it's little things like these that show another side of BL's character.

[boxerbilly]

I forgot about that Jimbo.


Hakaider - I still have serious reservations about believing Traid killed him. He was worth more alive than dead and he had not even become mega famous yet.
As you said they are Corporate now. Ill take your word for that. It makes sense for survival. And creates ability to launder money. But that is the name of their game. Money. There was zero profit in killing him. But then again, a market for his name/face merchandise sprang up after death but again, I don't think nay one projected this. I believe he died from cerebral edema as autopsy suggests. I have read things no. Look at his face. This or that poison does this. But just because it dose does not mean the person deducing it is correct. It seems logical. It can be proven this poison does that. But it can not be proven that poison was found in his body. And we can bring it back around to Triad cover up. Its an endless circle.

Im a huge JFK buff. I believe Oswald died and active Marine working for Dept. of Naval Intelligence. His life was just surrounded by to many people he had no reason being around. Friendly interactions and such. It was once believed no one could pull off that ****s he did with a Mannlicher Carcano. Until someone did replicate it. But does that mean he did it ? He was never tried. A questionable Warren Commission. Etc. Just one odd event after another with that lad. And even though I believe he was what I suggest.

Sometimes the simplest answer is in fact the answer. People , especially inside of the MA community not that others escape it. But we have a big tendency to look for secrets and not believe . We are ripe for conspiracy theories. And some people do massive research on stuff and put out an amazing theory that anyone who reads it can be sold first shot. And few return to thought. They accept it as the new belief. It really seems that easy with certain people.

Im not a follower of Joe Rogan myself but ive seen a clip or 2 and he talks about off the wall stuff. Now even this forum is loaded with alternative theories on everything and what is not here will one day present I am sure. It is fun. Now not many participate but I bet lots read it because it is also interesting.

But like any good theory. Mostly unprovable.

That's why I suggested we keep it to the facts as closely as possible. He and his death can spin some serious off the wall ideas. Yours is a good one actually. Lots of circumstantial evidence. Connecting this to that. Etc. It is impressive. I enjoy it.

Thanks again. Hope you make other as interesting threads.

[SteveLau]

Hakaider,

This topic is more like an unspoken true. I have read MMA instructor wrote that the sport is very difficult to expert in because it has a wide range of techniques. The sport is characterized by its inclusion of ground techniques. But quite often a tournament will start and end with strikes only. That is the point.

I agree with your main point that MMA is not martial art. But as a TMA student like me, taking down the opponent using a typical MMA move would be unwise. It is sort of giving our neck for the opponent to break. However, because it is a sport, and it has rules to forbid the use of such neck breaking move. Therefore I would not use some MMA fight methods and techniques in real fight.



P.S. I appreciate your posts much especially the first one of this discussion. Your are both a scholar and a warrior.


Regards,

KC
Hong Kong